ONZE TYPE

[Koteg]

My question to all collegues here.

Are You agree with the present variants of L’équipe type de saisons ...
May be You have some corrections ?

2002 / 2003

Letizi
Cristobal, Pochettino, Heinze, Potillon
Déhu, Paulo Cesar
Fiorèse, Ronaldinho, J. Leroy
Aloisio

( Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations en D1 : Nyarko, Cardetti, André Luiz, Alonzo, Pédron, Hugo Leal, Ogbeche, El Karkouri, Domi, Touré, Llacer, Benachour, Teixeira, Rocchi, Cana, L. Leroy, Lucau. )

---------

2001 / 2002

Letizi
Cristobal, Pochettino, Heinze, Potillon
Hugo Leal, Déhu, Arteta
Ronaldinho, Okocha
Aloisio

( Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations en D1 — les joueurs mentionnés en fin de liste, à l’exception de Gillet, ont quitté le groupe dans le courant du mois d’août 2001 : É. Cissé, El-Karkouri, Ogbeche, Anelka, Fiorèse, J. Leroy, Alex, Llacer, Mendy, Domi, Alonzo, L. Leroy, Agostinho, Robert, Benarbia, Ducrocq, Benachour, Hiroux, Gillet, Luccin, Distin, A. Cissé, Abriel. )

---------

2000 / 2001

Letizi
Algerino, Rabesandratana, Distin, Mendy
É. Cissé, Déhu, Luccin, Robert
Anelka, Christian

( Le PSG ayant connu deux entraîneurs, plusieurs schémas tactiques différents, un turnover important et une arrivé massive de joueurs au mercato hivernal, nous avons dressé l’équipe la plus crédible en suivant le nombre de titularisations.
Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations en D1 : Ducrocq, Dalmat, L. Leroy, Okocha, El Karkouri, Casagrande, Benarbia, Yanovski, Paisley, Pochettino, Domi, A. Cissé, Vampeta, Arteta, De Lucas, Okpara, Madar, Diawara, Abriel, Benachour. )

---------

1999 / 2000

Lama
A. Cissé, Okpara, Rabesandratana, Laspalles
Benarbia, Okocha, Ducrocq, Robert
Christian, L. Leroy

( À noter que cette équipe-type est basée sur le nombre de titularisations pour un poste donné. Ainsi Godwin Okpara y figure en tant que défenseur central alors qu’il a moins joué que d’autres joueurs — Algerino et Yanovski notamment —, parce qu’ils n’évoluent pas aux mêmes postes.
Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations : Algerino, Madar, Yanovski, É. Cissé, El Karkouri, Cesar, Murati, B. Rodriguez, J. Leroy, Diawara, Casagrande, Abriel, Carotti. )

---------

1998 / 1999

Lama
Algerino, Wörns, Goma, Llacer
Rabesandratana, Ducrocq
Lachuer, Okocha, Yanovski
Simone

( Le PSG ayant connu trois entraîneurs cette saison-là, la formation adoptée et le poste de certains joueurs ont changé à plusieurs reprises en cours d’exercice.
Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations : Paisley, Carotti, B. Rodriguez, Madar, A. Cissé, Domi, Ouédec, Loko, Adaílton, Gravelaine, Manuel Helder, J. Leroy, Laspalles, Casagrande, L. Leroy. )

---------
1997 / 1998

Revault
Algerino, Roche, Le Guen, Domi
Fournier, Ngotty, Gava
Raí
Maurice, Simone

( Ont également participé à cette saison, par ordre décroissant de titularisations : Rabesandratana, Guérin, J. Leroy, Llacer, Ducrocq, É. Cissé, Edmilson, V. Fernandez, Debbah, Loko, Martel, Kelban, Murati, Pantelic, Leonardo, Allou. )

[gauthier]

These teams are based on the number of game started in D1/L1, so, I think it's representative.
It's more difficult to get the teams for the seasons where there was a coach change, but I think that what we did here is OK.

[Koteg]

ОК

But why no prolongation after 2003 and nothing before 1997 ?

[gauthier]

Because PSGMAG ended, and we didn't have the time to do each season (for each, we did a summary and a presentation of the players who joined the club).

[Koteg]

Can You definitely deside, who were the 3 best players of PSG for each season in history ?
For example, my opinion about 2012/2013 : Matuidi, Ibrahimovic and Verratti.
1985/1986 : Fernandez, Bats and Rocheteau.
1984/1985 : Fernandez, Susic and Rocheteau...

I have a questionable list )))

---------------------------

2012/2013 1. Ibrahimovic, Matuidi et (? Verratti, Sirigu ?)
2011/2012 1. Nene, 2. Menez, 3. Pastore
2010/2011 1. Nene, (? Jallet, M.Sakho, Armand, Makelele, Bodmer, Hoarau, Tiene ?)
2009/2010 (? M.Sakho, Ceara, Armand, Giuly, Makelele, Clement, Sessegnon, Erding, Luyindula, Z.Camara ?)
2008/2009 (? Hoarau, Giuly, Ceara, Z.Camara, Armand, Makelele, Clement, Rothen, Sessegnon ?)
2007/2008 (? Landreau, Z.Camara, Yepes, Armand, Clement, Rothen, Pauleta, Ceara ?)
2006/2007 Landreau, Pauleta et (? Mendy, Rozehnal, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse, Diane, Rothen ?)
2005/2006 Pauleta, Dhorasoo et (? Letizi, J.Alonzo, Mendy, Rozehnal, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse, M'Bami ?)
2004/2005 Pauleta, (? Pierre-Fanfan, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse ?)
2003/2004 Pauleta, Sorin et Heinze
2002/2003 Ronaldinho, Heinze et (? Fiorese, J.Leroy, Pochettino ?)
2001/2002 Ronaldinho, (? Letizi, Dehu, Heinze, Jose Aloisio, Pochettino ?)
2000/2001 Robert, Anelka et (? luccin, Ducrocq, Dehu, Letizi ?)
1999/2000 Robert, Benarbia et Christian
1998/1999 Simone, Okocha et (? Lama, Algerino, Ducrocq, Yanovski ?)
1997/1998 Rai, Simone et (? Fournier, Roche, Ngotty, Le Guen, Rabesandratana ?)
1996/1997 (? Lama, Le Guen, Cauet, Ngotty, Guerin, Rai, Leonardo, Loko ?)
1995/1996 Y.Djorkaeff, Rai et (? Bravo, Le Guen, Guerin, Dely Valdes ?)
1994/1995 Weah, Guerin et (? Rai, Ginola ?)
1993/1994 Lama, Rai et (? Guerin, Ginola, Weah ?)
1992/1993 Roche, Ginola et Weah
1991/1992 (? Bats, Fournier, Ricardo, Le Guen, Perez, Simba, Valdo, Ginola ?)
1990/1991 Angloma, (? Reynaud, Susic, Bats, Bravo, Vujovic ?)
1989/1990 (? Bats, Sene, Susic, Calderon, Vujovic, Perez, Bravo ?)
1988/1989 Perez, Bats et (? sene, Xuereb, Calderon, Pilorget, Jeannol, Susic ?)
1987/1988 Sene, Bats et (? Calderon, Charbonnier, Susic, Poullain, Xuereb ?)
1986/1987 (? Bats, Pilorget, Jeannol, Poullain, Susic ?)
1985/1986 L.Fernandez, Bats et (? Rocheteau, Susic ?)
1984/1985 (? L.Fernandez, Susic, Rocheteau, Charbonnier ?)
1983/1984 (?L.Fernandez, Rocheteau, Susic, Lemoult ?)
1982/1983 (? L.Fernandez, Bathenay, Toko, Kist, Lemoult, Rocheteau, Susic ?)
1981/1982 (? Surjak, Bathenay, Rocheteau, Baratelli, L.Fernandez, Morin ?)
1980/1981 Rocheteau, Bathenay et (? Toko, Abel Braga, Boubacar, Baratelli ?)
1979/1980 Bathenay, Lemoult et (? Dahleb, Joao Alves, Renaut, Boubacar ?)
1978/1979 C.Bianchi, Bathenay et (? Baratelli, Pilorget, Renaut ?)
1977/1978 C.Bianchi, Dahleb et (? Renaut, Redon, F.Brisson, M'Pele, Pilorget ?)
1976/1977 Dahleb, M'Pele et (? Lokoli, Novi, Piasecki, Laposte ?)
1975/1976 Dahleb, M'Pele et (? H.Coelho, Laposte, Piasecki, Novi ?)
1974/1975 M'Pele, Dahleb et Dogliani
1973/1974 Dogliani, Leonetti et M'Pele
1972/1973 C.Andre, Renaut et Bereau
1971/1972 J.Djorkaeff, Guignedoux et Prost
1970/1971 Guignedoux, Bereau et J.Djorkaeff

Waiting for Your corrections with a great interest )))

[gauthier]

It's difficult to answer for all seasons. I guess most of us didn't even see a game before the 90's (how can you tell who were the best players in 1972-1973, when PSG was in D3 and nobody saw the games ?)

I'll try to do it for the 97-2013 seasons :

2012/2013 : Ibrahimovic, Matuidi, Maxwell
2011/2012 : Nene, Menez, Sirigu
2010/2011 : Nene, Chantôme, Armand
2009/2010 : Sakho, Makelele, Erding
2008/2009 : Hoarau, Giuly, Cearà
2007/2008 : Diané, Mendy, Pauleta
2006/2007 : Pauleta, Armand, Rothen
2005/2006 : Pauleta, Kalou, Yepes
2004/2005 : Pauleta, Mbami, Cana
2003/2004 : Pauleta, Fiorèse, Déhu
2002/2003 : Heinze, Fiorèse, J.Leroy
2001/2002 : Ronaldinho, Okocha, Pochettino
2000/2001 : Robert, Letizi (I' can't fin a third one)
1999/2000 : Benarbia, Christian, Okocha
1998/1999 : Ducrocq, Lama, Rabesandratana
1997/1998 : Rai, Simone, Le Guen

[Koteg]

I'll try to do it for the 97-2013 seasons :

2012/2013 : Ibrahimovic, Matuidi, Maxwell /
/ 2012/2013 1. Ibrahimovic, Matuidi et (? Verratti, Sirigu ?)

2011/2012 : Nene, Menez, Sirigu /
/ 2011/2012 1. Nene, 2. Menez, 3. Pastore

2010/2011 : Nene, Chantôme, Armand /
/ 2010/2011 1. Nene, (? Jallet, M.Sakho, Armand, Makelele, Bodmer, Hoarau, Tiene ?)

2009/2010 : Sakho, Makelele, Erding /
/ 2009/2010 (? M.Sakho, Ceara, Armand, Giuly, Makelele, Clement, Sessegnon, Erding, Luyindula, Z.Camara ?)

2008/2009 : Hoarau, Giuly, Cearà /
/ 2008/2009 (? Hoarau, Giuly, Ceara, Z.Camara, Armand, Makelele, Clement, Rothen, Sessegnon ?)

2007/2008 : Diané, Mendy, Pauleta /
/ 2007/2008 (? Landreau, Z.Camara, Yepes, Armand, Clement, Rothen, Pauleta, Ceara ?)

2006/2007 : Pauleta, Armand, Rothen /
/ 2006/2007 Landreau, Pauleta et (? Mendy, Rozehnal, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse, Diane, Rothen ?)

2005/2006 : Pauleta, Kalou, Yepes /
/ 2005/2006 Pauleta, Dhorasoo et (? Letizi, J.Alonzo, Mendy, Rozehnal, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse, M'Bami ?)

2004/2005 : Pauleta, Mbami, Cana /
/ 2004/2005 Pauleta, (? Pierre-Fanfan, Yepes, Armand, E.Cisse ?)

2003/2004 : Pauleta, Fiorèse, Déhu /
/ 2003/2004 Pauleta, Sorin et Heinze

2002/2003 : Heinze, Fiorèse, J.Leroy /
/ 2002/2003 Ronaldinho, Heinze et (? Fiorese, J.Leroy, Pochettino ?)

2001/2002 : Ronaldinho, Okocha, Pochettino /
/ 2001/2002 Ronaldinho, (? Letizi, Dehu, Heinze, Jose Aloisio, Pochettino ?)

2000/2001 : Robert, Letizi (I' can't fin a third one) /
/ 2000/2001 Robert, Anelka et (? luccin, Ducrocq, Dehu, Letizi ?)

1999/2000 : Benarbia, Christian, Okocha /
/ 1999/2000 Robert, Benarbia et Christian

1998/1999 : Ducrocq, Lama, Rabesandratana /
/ 1998/1999 Simone, Okocha et (? Lama, Algerino, Ducrocq, Yanovski ?)

1997/1998 : Rai, Simone, Le Guen /
/ 1997/1998 Rai, Simone et (? Fournier, Roche, Ngotty, Le Guen, Rabesandratana ?)

2012/2013 - I agree, that Maxwell could be the 3rd (not Sirigu and Verratti) ...
2011/2012 - I agree, that Pastore is out of three top players (because of the problems in all away games after Christmas) ...
2006/2007 - I want to say, that Landreau was named the best goalkeeper in L1 of that season (no his name in Your short list !) ...
2005/2006 - What about Dhorasoo ?
2003/2004 - What about Sorin ?
1998/1999 - What about Simone ?

[gauthier]

2012/2013 - I agree, that Maxwell could be the 3rd (not Sirigu and Verratti) ...
2011/2012 - I agree, that Pastore is out of three top players (because of the problems in all away games after Christmas) ...
2006/2007 - I want to say, that Landreau was named the best goalkeeper in L1 of that season (no his name in Your short list !) ...
2005/2006 - What about Dhorasoo ?
2003/2004 - What about Sorin ?
1998/1999 - What about Simone ?

2006-2007 : Landreau is ok, instead of Rothen because during the first half of the season, he was not good at all.
2005-2006 : Dhorasoo, except his goal during the finale, and one or two nice crosses during the season, he didn't do anything to be one of the better players this year.
2003-2004 : because of injuries and travels to his national team, Sorin played too few games to be in the top 3, in my opinion.
1998-1999 : for me, he wasn't that good during the season. All the negociations during the summer for a new contract, what he said to the newspapers, his missed penalty kick that put Giresse out of job, the fact that no other forward could play with him... it's too much bad points.

[Koteg]

2003/2004 - What about Sorin ?

2003-2004 : because of injuries and travels to his national team, Sorin played too few games to be in the top 3, in my opinion.

23 matchs whithout losing.
Not bad, seems to me...

[gauthier]

It's easier to not lose a game, when you don't play a lot... This year, there were so much players who were good during all the season to mention a guy who hardly played half of the games.

[Koteg]

23 it is half-season, as a minimum, when it is a season whithout Europe, like 03/04

[gauthier]

Paris played 45 games this year, so 23 games is hardly half of the games, that's what i said

By the way, i'm not saying that Sorin wasn't a good player, just, 2003-2004 was a really good season and i think that players who played the whole season as a starter (Alonzo, Dehu, Pierre-Fanfan, Mendy, Heinze, Cana, Mbami, Fiorèse and Pauleta) deserve more to be considered as top players.

[Koteg]

Gauthier, just one difference in our positions - I suppose 1/2 of all matchs it's an ENOUGH number ... when a Player is always in starting line-up  , not as a substitute 

[Koteg]

What's about Your opinion about 'Onze Type' (OPTIMAL) for different historical formations ...

1. ONZE TYPE 1970-1980

BARATELLI
J.DJORKAEFF     RENAUT     NOVI     ROSTAGNI
BATHENAY            DOGLIANI           F.BRISSON
C.BIANCHI            M'PELÉ           DAHLEB

2. ONZE TYPE 1980-1990

BATS
BIBARD     PILORGET     BATHENAY     TANASI
L.FERNANDEZ     LEMOULT     SÈNE     POULLAIN
ROCHETEAU                       SUŠIĆ

3. ONZE TYPE 1990-2000

LAMA
FOURNIER     RICARDO     ROCHE     COLLETER
Y.DJORKAEFF            LE GUEN             GUÉRIN
WEAH            RAÏ           GINOLA

4. ONZE TYPE 2000-2010

LETIZI
B.MENDY     DÉHU     M.SAKHO     ARMAND
MAKÉLÉLÉ             HEINZE
FIORÈSE            RONALDINHO             GIULY
PAULETA

5. ONZE TYPE FRANCE

BATS
FOURNIER     PILORGET     ROCHE     COLLETER
L.FERNANDEZ  Y.DJORKAEFF  LE GUEN  GUÉRIN
ROCHETEAU           GINOLA

6. ONZE TYPE ETRANGER

SIRIGU
VAN DER WIEL   RICARDO   THIAGO SILVA   MAXWELL
RAÏ                     SUŠIĆ                   DAHLEB
WEAH             IBRAHIMOVIĆ            PAULETA

[7homa5]

C'est personnel, mais j'ai toujours préféré ALONZO à LETIZI.

Ne pas voir Cândido Filho VALDO dans le onze étranger ou des 90's m'est difficile aussi.